45cat Logo
 Welcome Guest
 Login  :  Join 45cat   


45cat Forums  »  45cat Main Forum  »  View Topic

What is rare anymore?   


 Add Reply

Page 1 of 2  :  Previous  :  Next  :   

  12th Apr 2012, 8:33 AM#1  QUOTE  REPORT  
washlively

Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 1017
I see auctions with descriptions like "grail", "monster rarity" and "insanely rare" so frequently these days that the terms are virtually meaningless. And more often than not, those same records surface on eBay several times a year.

In my mind, that's not especially rare.

In the internet age, what is truly rare anymore? One known copy? Ten maybe?

From my own experience with collecting 60s Capitol singles (which does NOT include Beatles or Beach Boys), there are a couple of releases with only one or two known copies--The Baystaters, Johnny Caruso--which are not necessarily worth a ton of $$$, but still qualify as "insanely rare".

Thoughts?

Edited by moderator on 12th Apr 2012, 9:13 AM

  12th Apr 2012, 8:45 AM#2  QUOTE  REPORT  
dogear

The smile that you send out returns to you
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 1101
probably only collectors know what's rare - ebay sellers just use the term to push the price, I guess.


  12th Apr 2012, 9:16 AM#3  QUOTE  REPORT  
mickey rat

Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 4908
In my experience the vast majority of records are rare but nobody wants them. I don't know how many times I've looked at a record and thought jeez that's unusual, never seen that one before, but there's not a chance of on-selling unless I can establish that John Lennon's dog was in the studio when it was recorded. The ones that get hyped as rare are the ones that ARE hard to find but it's also known that lots of people are likely to shell out for. An example in my neck of the woods is the first Aussie only AC/DC single which used to be quite common. There were probably a few thousand copies in Aussie suburbia in the 1970s, but because there are now so many AC/DC collectors worldwide, even scratchy copies get good money. The last copy sold on ebay went for $1400 according to popsike.com, but can I sell a Kamahl record? Can I give it away even?


  12th Apr 2012, 9:24 AM#4  QUOTE  REPORT  
Getalife

So many questions, so few answers
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 2625
Moderator
I have a Bee Gee acetate, on one side a track without orchestra and on the other side a track with different lyric to the released recording, have never seen another like it, so would call that “monster rarity” (Check it on Emidisc), also have a first pressing of “Twist and Shout” this not so rare. :rolleyes:


  12th Apr 2012, 10:07 AM#5  QUOTE  REPORT  
dogear

The smile that you send out returns to you
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 1101
rare doesn't mean expensive. When I started collecting Curt Boettcher productions I got them pretty cheap, because nobody was interested in him - this has changed now look here

Edited by dogear on 12th Apr 2012, 10:08 AM

  12th Apr 2012, 2:09 PM#6  QUOTE  REPORT  
23Daves

Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 98
washlively wrote:
I see auctions with descriptions like "grail", "monster rarity" and "insanely rare" so frequently these days that the terms are virtually meaningless. And more often than not, those same records surface on eBay several times a year.

Back when I watched ebay like a hawk (in the days when I didn't realise it could be financially risky to get too obsessed with the site) I was sure I witnessed some genuinely rare records go up the sales pyramid.

So, an inexperienced seller would sell a copy of a rare disc for £25, it would then go to another more experienced seller who would get rid of it for £50, then it would get snapped up by another seller who offered it on Buy It Now for £85, and so on. I have no conclusive proof of this, but certainly some of the photos and descriptions seemed familiar, and it would definitely create the impression that a record was more widely available than previously thought. Or I suppose it could be just a bunch of ebay sellers also gazing in and realising that a record they'd been sitting on was worth more than they thought... some rare records do seem to turn up on there in sudden rushes, then it's years before you ever see copies of them again.

Most often, though, rare is just a meaningless term. I've seen it used for top twenty hits by one hit wonders before now! And Paul Nicholas' "Lamplighter", which is just the B-side to "Reggae Like It Used To Be".


  12th Apr 2012, 5:48 PM#7  QUOTE  REPORT  
Oakley Boys

If I Could Turn Back Time
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 2976
Moderator
Let's face it, rare and collectable are two entirely different things. Look how many copies of Led Zep 1 with Turquiose writing and The Beatles Black and Gold lettering feature on Ebay. You only have to look at how few samples of early HMV, Columbia or Parlophone 7" singles ( more common on 78) we have listed on our site to realise that there are not many of these about. Trouble is nobody wanted them because they were not collectable (except to people like me that is).
What would you rather have? a one-off acetate from 1954 of Victor Sylvestor or one of the several (genuine) copies of God Save the Queen on A&M?[well, one of 7 anyway?]

Edited by Oakley Boys on 12th Apr 2012, 5:49 PM

  13th Apr 2012, 9:16 AM#8  QUOTE  REPORT  
The_Vinyl_Junkie

The wife: Baby pacifier, put him in a record shop
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 2220
Moderator
I would class this as rare -
Downunder Record UK-1403 Jul. 1966 Wee Liz
A: "Tiny little pebble" (Kipner)
B: "Lonesome 409" (Kipner)
Produced by Nat Kipner
According to a Sydney collector on the Phoenix Rising web forum, it was reported at the time that only four copies were sold, and that the collector himself owns the only known survivng copy.
Downunder Records were distributed by Festival.


  13th Apr 2012, 7:36 PM#9  QUOTE  REPORT  
washlively

Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 1017
Oakley Boys wrote:
Let's face it, rare and collectable are two entirely different things.

Agreed, although for me "collectable" suggests records that are pressed intentionally in colored vinyl, limited quantities solely for the collector market place. Just look at the mania surrounding Jack White/White Stripes/Third Man releases. Insane. The vinyl equivalent of Beanie Babies.




  15th Apr 2012, 9:48 AM#10  QUOTE  REPORT  
sladesounds

Sex & Drugs & 45s (Its All My Brain & Body Needs)
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 1019
Moderator
washlively wrote:

Just look at the mania surrounding Jack White/White Stripes/Third Man releases. Insane. The vinyl equivalent of Beanie Babies.

Only insane to those not collecting them :eek:

I'm sure I've got a bit of paper somewhere saying I'm OK regardless of what the wife says.



Edited by sladesounds on 15th Apr 2012, 9:53 AM

  15th Apr 2012, 12:35 PM#11  QUOTE  REPORT  
Oakley Boys

If I Could Turn Back Time
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 2976
Moderator
washlively wrote:
Oakley Boys wrote:
Let's face it, rare and collectable are two entirely different things.

Agreed, although for me "collectable" suggests records that are pressed intentionally in colored vinyl, limited quantities solely for the collector market place. Just look at the mania surrounding Jack White/White Stripes/Third Man releases. Insane. The vinyl equivalent of Beanie Babies.

I think that you have to look at which artists (or labels) are the most popular and it is that which defines 'collectable'. I'll be honest, I don't think limited editions only (i.e coloured vinyls, limited pressing amounts, shaped PD's, poster packs etc) are the only things defined as collectables. Quite a few people here collect the London label so to them it is the label that is collectable. For me 60's chart pressings are collectable (amongst other things!). I agree that some things are 'created' as collectables but that is normally down to salepeople's marketing ploys, just to bring in extra dosh.
I also collect Jimi Hendrix but I refused to pay out extortionate amounts for the last Record Day issue of Dorielle Du Fontaine by Lightnin' Bod featuring Jimi simply because it looks almost exactly like the original.. why would I want it? It's not even that good.


  15th Apr 2012, 3:30 PM#12  QUOTE  REPORT  
Orbiting Cat

My name is nobody.
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 791
Administrator
There's the G45 website, which details the most collectable US garage singles.

http://www.g45central.com/g45/?r=0

It uses 3 criteria:
Quote:
S = STAR RATING. PERTAINS TO MUSIC QUALITY / ENERGY / ORIGINALITY / APPEAL. SUBJECTIVE GUIDE, NO APOLOGIES.

R = RARITY. COPIES KNOWN TO US IN THE HANDS OF COLLECTORS WORLDWIDE. OBVIOUSLY OTHERS MAY CERTAINLY EXIST

L = LEGEND. NECESSARY TO DISTINGUISH TIME-HONORED LEGENDARY RARITIES FROM "FLAVOR OF THE MONTH"
BEST EXPRESSED AS COLLECTOR-CONSCIOUSNESS, COMPILATION APPEARANCE, WANT-LIST APPEARANCE



  15th Apr 2012, 10:22 PM#13  QUOTE  REPORT  
fabgear66

I was so much older then I'm younger than that now
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 3142
Speaking of collectable records, have a look at all the lovely labels on this site:

http://www.collectable-records.ru/english.htm



  16th Apr 2012, 1:52 AM#14  QUOTE  REPORT  
washlively

Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 1017
Orbiting Cat wrote:
There's the G45 website, which details the most collectable US garage singles.

Thanks for the link. Any idea when that list was published? Unfortunately, the picture link for #1 is just of a crowded expressway.

Maybe we should assemble a similar discography across all genres for records that exist in 10 or fewer copies?


  16th Apr 2012, 2:02 AM#15  QUOTE  REPORT  
washlively

Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 1017
sladesounds wrote:
washlively wrote:

Just look at the mania surrounding Jack White/White Stripes/Third Man releases. Insane. The vinyl equivalent of Beanie Babies.

Only insane to those not collecting them :eek:

I'm sure I've got a bit of paper somewhere saying I'm OK regardless of what the wife says.

LOL, I'm sure that will change if your wife discovers you spent $4000+ USD on a flexidisc record allegedly attached to a blue balloon and floated over Alabama.


  16th Apr 2012, 5:47 PM#16  QUOTE  REPORT  
sladesounds

Sex & Drugs & 45s (Its All My Brain & Body Needs)
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 1019
Moderator
washlively wrote:
LOL, I'm sure that will change if your wife discovers you spent $4000+ USD on a flexidisc record allegedly attached to a blue balloon and floated over Alabama.

Now that was an interesting promotion stunt.
Here's the link for any members that missed it.

http://thirdmanrecords.com/balloon


  16th Apr 2012, 9:21 PM#17  QUOTE  REPORT  
Bobzyeruncle

Why don't we put a @#%&ing 12 string on it?
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 1515
Just wish someone at Rhino/Warners had thought of something like this for the 40 minute "Dark Star" Grateful Dead RSD promo.
I guess 1,000 pieces of 180 gram vinyl would have needed a little more helium. Hah!


  18th Apr 2012, 1:41 AM#18  QUOTE  REPORT  
Brisbane 1960s archivists

Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 202
The_Vinyl_Junkie wrote:
I would class this as rare -
Downunder Record UK-1403 Jul. 1966 Wee Liz
A: "Tiny little pebble" (Kipner)
B: "Lonesome 409" (Kipner)
Produced by Nat Kipner
According to a Sydney collector on the Phoenix Rising web forum, it was reported at the time that only four copies were sold, and that the collector himself owns the only known survivng copy.
Downunder Records were distributed by Festival.

I have a copy too. It isn't that uncommon as previously thought. BTW I created the forum.

Edited by stampy on 18th Apr 2012, 1:42 AM

  18th Apr 2012, 1:44 AM#19  QUOTE  REPORT  
Brisbane 1960s archivists

Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 202
washlively wrote:
Orbiting Cat wrote:
There's the G45 website, which details the most collectable US garage singles.

Thanks for the link. Any idea when that list was published? Unfortunately, the picture link for #1 is just of a crowded expressway.

Maybe we should assemble a similar discography across all genres for records that exist in 10 or fewer copies?

Mark Taylor's site.


  8th Jun 2012, 1:02 AM#20  QUOTE  REPORT  
Antoinsky

Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 1
I have what I believe is an original copy of the 1975 Blondie 4-track demo produced by Alan Betrock, complete with photo/info sheet, but I'd like to make sure. Anybody have any suggestions?


Page 1 of 2  :  Previous  :  Next  :   

 Add Reply

45cat Forums  »  45cat Main Forum

45cat website ©2014  :  Privacy Policy  :  Terms  :  Contact Us  :  Visit 45worlds.com  :  Like us on Facebook  :