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Record Details



Artist:Jackie Brenston
Label:  Chess
Country:USA
Catalogue:1458
Date:2010
Format:Bootleg / Repro 7"
Collection:  I Own It     I Want It 
Community:3 Own
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♫ Listen To This Record ♫


TrackArtistTitleComposerProducerRating
AJackie BrenstonRocket 88Jackie Brenston8.0  Rate
BJackie BrenstonCome Back Where You BelongJackie Brenston3.0  Rate


Notes

Reissue from Chess' 1951 original 78

Images



Comments
 
55bluesman
23rd Mar 2013
 added a b-side scan, but obviously it is a label variation to the a-side
 

 
GeneRobertson
22nd Nov 2012
 PIano played by Ike Turner.
 

 
deezee
21st Jul 2012
 Hi Billy Two; thanks for replying.

There are so many considerations in this and different categories of 'bootlegs' that I really think a forum subject should be opened if 45cat is looking for a firm policy. It's much more complex when one really looks into all the many aspects and a lot of people might want to give their views.

For now I'd say that most would agree that a mention should be made somewhere. An early number listed late in the list might never be seen by someone who didn't know about the boot in the first place. Maybe a system of an asterisk next to the entry of the real record could be the easy way to set it up. That would signify that a bootleg exists and more comments are listed inside.

Then there are boots existing of records never issued on 45 and even of unissued material. Many of these are coming out right now.
 

 
Billy Two
21st Jul 2012
 Hi Deezee,

Obviously I'm delighted to hear that my Lee Andrews is an original - thanks for the knowledgeable info !

With regards to :

I'll add some other points another time but don't think bootlegs/repros should be separate entries because there are so many of them. But suggest their existance when known should be mentioned under comments to help collectors.

If there needs to be a comment stating they're bootleg/repros, that in itself proves that they are separate entities (and therefore require their own individual entry). Just because a market is flooded with them doesn't make it any more official or original - it will always be an unofficial reproduction. Surely nothing is more helpful for a collector than a definitive entry saying "this is NOT an original" ?
 

 
deezee
21st Jul 2012
 I don't know much about recent bootlegs so I don't if the Brenston 45 here is real or not. Sometimes a photograph is taken from a record, or John Tefftellers scan could have been utilized. It looks just like the original but one would have to inspect the actual record to tell for sure.

I wrote some more but lost it all when I tried to post. I did post comments under Lee Andrew & The Hearts (1665) which shows a true silver top copy in an injection press. Contrary to Billy Two's post, this type of pressing is different from the later types he is thinking of. The mid-50s was the heyday for cheap injection presses.

I'll add some other points another time but don't think bootlegs/repros should be separate entries because there are so many of them. But suggest their existance when known should be mentioned under comments to help collectors.

I think 'big' subjects like this might be better in the forum, same with the determining A and B sides problems.
 

 
mickey rat
21st Jul 2012
 From Blues Records Vol 1: Jackie Brenston & His Delta Cats: Jackie Brenston (v/ts), Raymond Hill (ts), Ike Turner (p), Willie Kizart (g), Willie Sims (d), Memphis 5 March 1951. [recorded by Sam Phillips of course]. I just listened to the youtube clip and it is indeed from the original 78 but there's something in the digitisation process when listening on the internet that loses the GUTS of these records. I no longer have the 78 but well remember playing it with a diamond 78 stylus through my old amplifier and big fat speakers and the fuzz guitar sound was up front and really loud. Oh well, perhaps I just drank more in those days and imagined it all. Raymond Hill who plays the long sax break on this record was the father of Tina Turner's first child.
 

 
Whyperion
21st Jul 2012
 

Audio supposedly from the 1951 78 , which credits , as does the repro , Jackie Brenston and his Delta Cats.
 

 
deezee
21st Jul 2012
 .

The real Chess 45 was released in 1953, just possibly 1952., which is what John Teffteller found. It wasn't issued as a 45 in 1951. There a couple more 1951 45s that were also put out later.

Very rare but the 78 is very common and has still sold in recent years for inflated prices.
 

 
richieyo2000
4th Apr 2012
 Scan and post the repro. Let us see for our selves. Unless this is the copy you bought from Tefteller.
 

 
richieyo2000
4th Apr 2012
 http://www.tefteller.com/html/45_jackie_brenston_rock88.html
 

 
richieyo2000
4th Apr 2012
 I'll bet you I know where you got that image...
http://www.tefteller.com

I believe I downloaded the same JPEG of this particular record about ten years ago. Everything matches up. This record in this good of condition is extremely rare. Finding an original of this record is rare enough,
 

 
LaurenceD
14th Mar 2012
 Thought I'd mention that Ike lived a few miles away from us for quite a few years, up until his passing in December 2007. While I never met him, friends of mine would see him around town, and he was always willing to talk about his music, even if they had no idea who he was. Here's an article from the local paper that ran in Feb 2007.
 

 
bill mann
14th Mar 2012
 Mickey rat, you are so right about Ike, he was much more important for his musical career in the 50s than discovering Tina. Take a listen to his Federal sides, they are ALL GREAT, with some of the hottest tremolo guitar you will
ever hear, Hank Marvin, eat your heart out. Someone, can't remember who, said of Ike and his whammy bar 'I got one and I'm gonna use it' . boy ! am I glad he did. I think I have nearly all Ike's 50s stuff on cd, and there's not much crap there at all. Criminally underated.
 

 
mickey rat
14th Mar 2012
 I too had the repro 45 and played it a lot. I also picked up an original 78 in the 1970s, and jeez was that a revelation! This is often cited as "the first rock & roll record" based on the "fuzz" guitar sound caused by a faulty speaker in Willie Kizart's amp, obvious on the 45, but VERY obvious on the 78 as I remember. Trying to explain the importance of this record via CD versions (with no bottom at all) is impossible. Anyway, Ike Turner's band (which this was) deserve much more credit than they get in most R&R histories.
 

 
Billy Two
16th Sep 2011
 Yup, that makes my Lee Andrews a repro, all right. It's a polystyrene pressing as well which I seem to remember from another thread didn't come in until the 60's ?

And fair enough if people are paying that amount for repros - I know and appreciate they can become indemand items in themselves ! But I'm sure you agree that people do often pay over the odds for repro items they assume (or are told) are originals.

Aaaaand... If we are going to included these repro images with originals, they surely ought not to be the main picture, however accurate they may be...
 

 
carryonsidney
16th Sep 2011
 Billy, if you look up USA Chess here, you'll see that many of the original records have a slight indent inside the label areas, whereas the repro label for this one is totally flat?

I see I havent written down my last comment properly, one of the repros discs I saw listed was $76 and the seller made it clear it was a repro. Some red vinyl editions exist which go for more.

A note to the Mods: The number and label for this entry is correct for the original 45, why not change the date to 1951 and Format to 7" and hide the repro image?



 

 
Billy Two
16th Sep 2011
 ...and I'm suddenly wondering if my copy of this is a "repro" !!??
 

 
Billy Two
16th Sep 2011
 >> "It was never their intention to replace the original articles..."

But the problem is that they often have replaced the original, precisley because, as you say Keith, " too few buyers and sellers know the difference...". Are people spending $70 on repros because they're rare, or because they think they're buying an original cheap ?

A useful function of this site is the separating of official originals from later unofficial pressings. That's not shovelling them into a forgotten corner, merely differentiating them. Maybe, having trained eyes, we think things couldn't possibly be confused, but many repro/bootlegs are designed to be as authentic as possible and the casual collector could easily be mistaken, or even duped by unscrupulous dealing..

"It happened on another site that members would proudly show an old Imperial 45 they had just bought....I knew that cheap repros were made...should I tell that proud owner that he MIGHT have one ?"

I would, yes. Not to belittle, but just because it's an important point. Better that than letting them carry on being mistaken, surely ?
 

 
carryonsidney
16th Sep 2011
 A quick look on popsike confirms label appears to be an exact repro. Original 45's have sold for over $1000, but even some repros have fetched $70+ ! Judging by the results the original 78 is much more common than a 45.

On this entry, surely it be changed back to the original with a 1951 date and just leave this repro image tagged as a repro since it is identical? The record seems to be have been constantly repressed since the 70's?
 

 
bill mann
16th Sep 2011
 Keith, I know exactly what you are getting at.Obviously we will never know every 45 that has been "copied" for want of an alternate name for these things. Quite a lot of these non-originals have a date etched in the runout area eg.1973, which seems the most common in my collection. I own quite a few, all in near mint comdition, which is a dead giveaway for a record that is supposed to be 50-60 years old.
 

 
KeithS
16th Sep 2011
 Mumble mumble Grrr!!
Honestly these things are nearly 30 years old now-theyve become historical artefacts- and should be taken more seriously that shouting Bootleg and hiding them in a corner.
It was never their intention to replace the original articles, just to give everyone a chance to own something similar at a cheap price.
Obviously no thought was given to the confusion that they would cause in collector circles because 30 years ago they were spanking new and couldnt possibly be confused with the real thing´
Rub this one against a brick for a few minutes and then see if it's so easy.
All I am interested in is knowing that a repro of a certain disc exists because too few buyers and sellers know the difference...and if the difference isnt obvious,then the fact that a reproduction exists on the market must put identification and pricing in jeapordy
It happened on another site that members would proudly show an old Imperial 45 they had just bought....I knew that cheap repros were made...should I tell that proud owner that he MIGHT have one ?
 

 
bill mann
16th Sep 2011
 Keep your shirt on Keith, Yes I followed it ! ! !
OK it's a bootleg, it's still sounds great to me.
As Felonious said 'Bootleg, pirate copy, fake etc they're all illegal reproductions.'

When I bought it, it was advertised as a repro, can I now do the seller under the trade descriptions act ? I think as long as you are aware it's not an genuine issue, then whats the problem ? You pays your money & takes your chance.
 

 
KeithS
16th Sep 2011
 Havent you been following the diatribe??? Its an evil Bootleg!!!!!! There's no such thing as a Repro (unless all fees are paid etc etc)
 

 
bill mann
16th Sep 2011
 OK It's not an original so what is it then ?
 

 
KeithS
16th Sep 2011
 "Repro"?????http://www.45cat.com/record/mf9272

 

 
bill mann
16th Sep 2011
 This looks very similar to my copy, same fonts, layout etc. Mine is definitely a repro, not a reissue and was bought as such. £1.50 if I remember correctly
 

 
KeithS
16th Sep 2011
 "Reissue"????
 


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Linked Releases

Unknown Country - Chess - 2012


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